Good morning, my daughter is a architecture student working towards her b. Arch - going into 2nd year.
wanting to update her laptop, but unsure where to start. Most recommendations on pages appear to be Paid opinions, so looking for some real life independent advice.
Probably a desktop is a better choice - as your daughter goes into higher classes, the graphic work gets more intense so a computer with solid graphics card, memory etc would be more desirable than a laptop.
She currently has Macbook, but we are upgrading that as it lags. Not looking for desktops at the moment.
Jan 10, 24 10:13 pm ·
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gwharton
I agree with the desktop recommendation. To get a laptop which can do heavy lifting with things like Revit and Twinmotion, you'd need a top-of-the-line ThinkPad doorstop or some eye-wateringly expensive gaming laptop.
Anything you would use for that, you'd be paying a lot of money for because even then, if I want to do heavy lifting for that stuff, I'm looking at $10,000 in getting the best video card, most RAM and fastest RAM modules for system memory, and the fastest and most cores in a CPU (be it Intel or AMD) and best motherboard. Basically, the best computer you can possibly buy that isn't a minicomputer (a computer the size of a floor to ceiling cabinet or 2-3 file cabinets in size computer or a mainframe/supercomputer like any of the TOP500 supercomputers which as so far outside the budget of this student and her mother unless her mother makes the kind of money of Elon Musk. These aren't practical for a dorm at all. So a top of the line gaming desktop there is, is what I would be using for heavy rendering and doing it fast. A lesser computer just means it takes longer to do the rendering.
Invest in a good set of sketching pencils, pens, markers, and paper. A better/ more expensive computer does not make a better student. Also, don’t waste $ on Apple.
She already has all of that, and has been selling pieces of her artwork for a few year prior to entering Uni. Just looking for advice / recommendations on upgrading her Laptop please.
Jan 10, 24 11:08 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
asus rog strix.
it does not have the superficial sex appeal of the mac pro and it's thicker/heavier... but it'll kick any of the sleek laptops of her classmates. My original point still stands tho. You don't need a beast to make good design visuals.
Excellent, Non. I love that you emphasize the wonderful basics. Your next post then starts with three words I had to Google, because I thought your keyboard got stuck for a minute =O]
Besides investing in the non-computer tools. I would recommend actually both a desktop and a laptop. The desktop in her dorm or studio (if the latter can be properly secured). The laptop would and should be a high end gaming grade laptop because the graphic chipset is highly performant for laptops and would perform adequately for some of her work that she would need on the go and taking class notes. I recommend also that she have a good phone or tablet to take snapshot of slides and all. This is not cheap, I know. But this should be good for 3 years and the desktop can be suitable for heavy workload like rendering for up to about 6 years or so with upgrade in video card at some point. The laptop would suit presentations and writing reports and stuff not requiring quite the heavy rendering power of the desktop but can do some rendering. The desktop can be working on some heavy rendering from her dorm, for example, while she is not in the dorm. You just don't take the desktop with you. Too heavy for that to be practical. A tablet or smartphone just won't be good for that. It can be fine for photo taking and maybe some note taking. It will be up to her in how she uses them together efficiently.
If you do in fact get only a laptop, it should be a high end laptop with powerful graphics.
asus rog strix with a 4080 or 4090 RTX or a Razer Blade 18 with a 4080 or 4090. These or equivalent would be what I would recommend for a laptop. These aren't cheap with the 4080 and higher. I would not recommend less than 8 GB of Graphic memory. This could serve 3-5 years. Keep in mind that it will likely take longer to render than a desktop PC with the same general but full discrete video card. It won't perform as fast as a desktop with a 4080 or 4090 video card because the laptop is using mobile versions of the GPUs that are tuned down for energy efficiency some for laptop use. However, it may be more powerful than the desktop computers you'll find a lot of in most universities which are likely Dells or somthing not as full on on the top of the line. They may be performant but schools tend to put stuff for "security" that becausely destroys the real world performance turning them into slugs.
It might hurt her street cred, but switching to a gaming laptop might be your best bet. Macbooks don't get good air circulation and tend to overheat quickly, whereas something like Omen 16 has multiple settings for the cooling and runs pretty good graphics. That's what I have and I was able to customize it to not be too bulky/expensive; I got it in 2020 and its still in good condition too.
Ok don’t know what happened. Lenovo Legion 5 Pro Gen 8 16”, runs everything well with the caveat that you need to turn off a setting that lets the computer turn off your Bluetooth to save power.
Jan 11, 24 8:06 pm ·
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DebbieJ
Have been looking at the Lenov Legion one and now the Asus rog strix too, so thanks for your feedback, very helpful.
No disagreement. Can be a 4k smart TV (probably recommend one from Samsung or similar established name brand) as it would serve as a TV and computer monitor. Of course, you don't take this or a monitor with you as you go but when at the dorm working on the assignments then yes. The laptop screen I was suggesting by the models suggested would be 17"-19" screen (typical for quality gaming laptop but I go agree when in her dorm, a 32-42 inch screen may be appropriate to have. 48" would be on the upper end for a dorm room space but at the sizes around 40" would give a decent screen real estate area. I would have a quality mouse or trackball. At some point but not necessarily now, I would consider a Wacom One that can be used with the Laptop. It's like the Cintiq models but smaller and less pricey but can work for aspects of her classwork in the architecture courses.
The suggestion for using a smart TV that's 4K or higher resolution is it can serve both TV and computer display uses at the same time with just an HDMI or DisplayPort cable.
I suggest a smart tv if she doesn't have one already at the 4K level screen resolution is that it will serve the purpose Chad was referring to AND also serve the other use a student in college will need from time to time... TV for entertainment to relax every so often from the course work. There just might not be enough physical space for a TV, a laptop, and yet another large monitor because of how much space there is to work with. Those are important considerations for students.
Setup and personal preference are everything with monitors. Larger monitors or TVs in particular, are less ideal if you want to sit up close to your screen. Also, you may want to consider if your child will want to park a monitor in their room or in their studio space. A TV on a desk in studio may not be ideal.
This brings up another important point. Laptop size. For comparison. A 17" gaming laptop will be bigger, bulkier, and heavier than the largest MacBook you can buy. This can be a serious downside for a commuter.
I don't know your daughter, but I'd look at this aspect in person if you can. I suspect you would not want to exceed a 17" screen, and may in fact want to go down.
I think she can carry any gaming laptop in a suitable size laptop bag. Seriously. I'm not built like Arnold in build so I think a gaming laptop, although heavier than a MacBook might be, it nowhere the weight of that beast above from the 1980s.
In this day and age, most colleges are already moving towards having an ebook version of their class textbook available on the course website (even for IN-PERSON classes) especially since COVID. They don't necessarily take their books to class and back to dorm like the old days.
A gaming laptop might weigh as much as my ol' Amiga 500. and not to be confused with any one of these "minis" gimmicks made these days.
Just that weighed about 7 lbs. PSU and mouse would be something stick in a bag on a shoulder and take stick the keyboard/computer on the other side under your arm with your hand gripping it. That same way as done with the Commodore 128 that weighted only 5.5 lbs.
Page 9 of the PDF. An Amiga 500 would be carried in the same manner. It is also similar to how people carry laptops without using the laptop carry bag. The computer isn't that heavy to carry.
Point is, the laptops these days aren't that heavy. They might weigh up to about the weight of the Amiga 500 computer/keyboard but the laptop is keyboard, computer, and display and data storage medium all in one. It can be conveniently carried in a laptop bag along with a usb stick.
Since we are being anecdotal, my professional experience probably has a sample size of around 1000 people that I’ve known who used laptops in a professional/school context for architecture... based only on comments and complaints I’ve heard, often repeatedly, a not insignificant portion of those people would much prefer smaller laptops.
This really depends on the person, the way you commute, and how you want to be able to carry it.
Similarly, how much it inconveniences you one way or another is a personal matter.
People can be wimpy and whiny or they can choose to quick being that way. Period. If you want to be an architect, you are going to need to be able to carry heavier things like your physical models may very well be, so maybe that laptop helps with arm muscle strength. You wouldn't simultaneously carry five 2-3 inch thick textbooks, a physical model, and the laptop at the exact same time. You take separate trips.
Now with digital e-books of the textbooks you will likely have access to in class, you will likely be using those and leave the physical books in your dorm. You likely will take a separate trip to bring in the model separate from your laptop. Two trips. I have that point of reference to. I've been in a school with 1000 different architecture students and many more different students in total at the university.
I've heard whiny people whine like babies for decades so come on.
A Macbook weighs around (depending on the model) the weight of the Commodore 64 keyboard/computer unit. Seriously, can't easily carry a 5 or 10lb bag of sugar? (rhetorical)
Jan 12, 24 6:01 pm ·
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natematt
You’re right Richard, there is absolutely no medical research on the impact of carrying heavy bags, especially not with particular consideration for shoulder bags that may be used for computers, on people’s physical health that would suggest it may cause issues such as neck/back/shoulder injury. none. If you can lift it once, you can lift it and carry it around with unnatural weight distribution for a prolonged period of time repeatedly, I am sure.
I don't know about screen size. The monitor in my image is 38" and slightly curved. I sit 20" away from the monitor and don't have any issues. If I want I cant get a few inches from the screen and don't have any loss of resolution.
That's probably why the monitors cost around $1,500 each. :s
nattmatt, we're not talking 23 to 25 lbs luggables like the SX-64. All this scientific research of personal injuries of the most pathetically weak limp-arm people out there, then yes. A person should be able to carry a 5-8 lb laptop anywhere for an hour straight. I had in my 20s, carried a laptop to class.... 4+ miles away by foot. Now, that might be a stretch for continuous duration. what college or university campus site is 4 miles? You'd more likely drive than walk that distance. We are talking what, 3-5 city blocks maybe from a dorm to classroom. You wouldn't have it on your shoulder all the time. A university campus distance might comparable in distance from a dorm to a particular class like it is to go from my house to the my local community college main campus location (which is about 3-5 blocks east to west by 4 blocks up hill) so yeah. Those who knows my address can gauge that pretty straightforward but not posting my exact address. It's not that hard for a student especially any student who is physically fit and not woefully out of shape.
Jan 15, 24 1:09 am ·
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natematt
My commuter laptop for grad school weighed about 10lbs with the charger (can’t forget the accessories which tend to also be larger with larger laptops). Anyway, just because that didn’t bother me, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t bother someone else. Repetitive strain injuries exist.
Don't be tricked into the hype of a lot of the marketing game. Lenovo Thinkpads while looking obscurely outdated generally have unbelievable components and can run Revit, Escape, Rhino and about every Adobe all at once. I have put mine through a million paces and my current office is all on Thinkpad laptops. Highly recommend looking into them.
You should get away from mac for architecture school.
A laptop can work fine. Find a mid to high range gaming laptop by a company you like and there you go. You should be able to get away with $1500-2000 range. It’s hard to broadly characterize the system requirements anymore given that the performance values of CPUs and GPUs don’t really line up with the naming systems. However, most of the GPU and CPU stuff you get at that range will work for architecture school. I think a couple architecture specific issues would be making sure you have enough RAM, specifically I’d go for 32 gigs at this point in time, but most of the laptops with this default might be overpowerd on other fronts. Also, you don’t need the crazy screen refresh rates for architecture, so don’t find yourself paying for that if you can avoid it.
I’d also agree on a second monitor even with the laptop. Though I’d probably not go with something quite as large myself, and then dual monitor with my laptop.
32 GB of initial RAM. If you can get 64GB right off the bat, great. Ideally, it should be upgradeable to 128 GB or 256 GB or higher in system RAM. When looking at specs on laptops, like desktop, is upgradeability of the main memory (not talking about the video memory but main system memory). There is generally two types of memory listed in tech specs. One that is directly associated with the GPU/Video Card and the other is the main system memory. When I am talking memory, I am talking RAM. Hard drive and SSD are long term storage and is separate from RAM. The recommended laptops like the Asus ROG Strix and Razer Blade are likely to be upgradeable to 128 GB or higher main system memory RAM. Gaming computers even laptops are usually upgradeable beyond 64 GB. This would allow her to bump up the RAM in a year or two to 128 GB or 256 GB. This would give a fair service life up to about 4-6 years. Especially if she picks up an external hard drive for off loading her past homework to to free up internal hard drive. I recommend at least 1-2 TB internal hard drive. If the system is allows upgradeability to higher capacity, it will likely be upgradeable to 4-8 TB or even 12 TB. Then again, 2-4 TB internal is fine if you have an 8TB or higher external HD to store the stuff to. For her student work, should be fine. Always can buy a second external HD later and plug it in especially if you keep games and personal stuff on that and school work and possibly professional stuff on that when it is no longer needs to be on the internal hard drive. Just an idea and how one can organize their stuff.
Fair point noting the GPU vs system. Disagree on the points you’re making.
Most gaming laptops won’t support more than 64gb of system memory. It is unlikely this person will upgrade their memory before they get a new computer. 32gb is a solid number at this point if you’re looking to be at least a little cost considerate. At the point where 64gb stops cutting it they would probably need to replace the laptop for other hardware limitations anyway.
I think all gaming laptops use NVMe solid state drives for storage at this point, which is good… but it means that it’s more expensive to just splurge on storage, and also that a lot of cost considerate buying options are probably going to limit you to something like 4tb. I don’t know how much students accumulate these days, so it’s hard for me to say but I doubt you’d need more than 2TB of storage unless you’re downloading AAA video games. I’d probably go with 2tb of storage and get an external if you are really that much of a mess. Again, I highly doubt this person will ever upgrade or want to upgrade their storage. Of the two this seems much less meaningful, since you can always just external all your non system files.
If money is no option, then they should just go nuts.
You got to think 4 DIMENSIONALLY. Think future. Also think about how RAM improves the system resources and reduce rendering time especially wit complex stuff. While the internal hard drive may be an NVMe SSD. That's fine. You aren't limited to NVMe SSDs for external hard drives.
I'm talking about room for running not just Revit but also memory resources for web browser content that can be rather bloaty in memory but not necessarily CPU intensive. That's what I am getting at. Some things can use a lot of memory but doesn't necessarily use a lot of percentage of CPU. Understand where I am coming from?
I’m working on a professional architecture laptop right now doing professional stuff. 32gb is fine.
Revit is a memory monster, but I can’t recall the last time I ran out of memory. This person is probably not even going to be doing Revit in school. Other softwares like rhino or adobe are more likely to be the heavy lift for them, but even along with internet this shouldn’t really be a limiting factor. If they wanted to spend the extra money on just one thing, then yes this would be a good choice, and it’s not as expensive as upgrading other aspects of the computer. There is almost no way this person will ever need more than 64gb of ram on this computer, and the necessity of getting a laptop that can take a 128+ upgrade is basically zero.
BTW: The Razer Blade 18 could support higher capacity memory. With two memory slots up to 64 GB SODIMM per slot. That is because the CPU supports that capacity in the memory controller that is built into the CPU. They only factory tested to 32 GB modules as a manufacturer. Usually, you can double the factory original upper limit listed. The Asus ROG Strix SCAR 18 (2024 and maybe 2023) is likely to actually be able to support 128 GB. Even if it is a BIOS update. The CPU is more than capable of registering upwards of 192 GB of memory according to Intel technical specs.
The CPUs used were already engineered by Intel to support 64GB and 96 GB SO-DIMM modules. Intel tested that in their labs. Razer and Asus just haven't confirmed their units can support it because they haven't had those modules to test with. As long as they are faithful electronically to the reference kit board schematics closely enough and wired up all the memory trace lines accordingly, it'll likely support it, hardware wise. It will just be a matter of time when those modules come out. So I can realistically see 128 GB support supported on the unit as an upper end. It is unclear the 96 GB modules comes out to commercial market by the time they switch over to DDR6. The next gen after DDR5. So, there you have it. DDR5 is likely to be supported up to 64 GB SO-DIMM modules for a few more years. Pair of 64 GB modules for 128 GB of memory would provide extend her use to about 2030. At that time, we'll be approaching DDR 8 or something that may replace the whole DDR concept. High-end gaming grade 13th and 14th gen Intel mobile Core i9 cpus are going to provide some support her academic needs. When she graduates or after a couple years of employment after college, she may be able to upgrade then.
Jan 12, 24 6:47 pm ·
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natematt
That's interesting information. They are still never going to upgrade any of the hardware in their laptop.
Then you by the largest ram modules around and have them installed by a computer professional, dimwit. If there is a door on the bottom of the laptop held in by an individual screw then you can actually upgrade the ram modules. You don't have to be a software developer / programmer with 30+ years of experience with experience making PCBs for game cartridges, soldering on chips and components. No. Two screws and right size and fitting (almost always a philips head) screw driver. Counter clockwise turning to losen and then press a couple tabs to remove memory module and then insert memory module aligning the alignment notch in the ram module with the socket so it inserts properly one way with relatively mild insertion pressure clipping in. the putting the memory compartment lid back on and put the screws back in and clockwise turning with the screw driver to tighten screw to snug. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. You can always pay some computer professional $100 to install it. Bill you a minimum 1 hour fee even if it only takes maybe 5 minutes. It's basically a flat initial fee and calculated after that in maybe 15 minute units of time (or about $25 units of time). Some might be as low as $60 an hour or $15 per 15 minute unit. That's was normal amount for computer repair shops 20 years ago.
If you have an easily accessible compartment to access memory and replace it then it would be easy. Those are usually identified as compartments with memory access. Here's how easy it is to actually access the memory area of the Asus ROG Strix SCAR 18:
Remove 11 screws or whatever. Don't even have to remove the battery as indicated in the video because the battery isn't in the way. You can use something like a guitar pick to free up the lid at the beginning. The battery removal is not needed to be removed to access the SO-DIMM memory. You can change memory module and upgrade them and then put the lid back on and screws back in. Could be done in 15 minutes. First time, could take you that long or longer simply because of nervousness with doing something you never done before kind of stuff. The video points clearly where the memory module goes.
Practically, a trained monkey can do this. Parts of the video are something, she would never have to be messing with as a non-computer professional like the heatsink stuff removal. So you can ignore that. Replacing the battery, could be ignored unless the battery is going bad for some reason. Not terribly difficult. The m.2 SSD (NVMe could be something she could self install or have a computer pro do. The ram upgrade is simple enough. This is actually rather easy to laptop to do this stuff with.
Basically, you do the first 38 seconds in reverse order to put the lid and screws back in. Just have a tidy area and some dish or something to put the screws in when you remove the screws and put it back. It is just keeping track of the steps and sequence and gently clipping back in the lid as maybe so it looks correctly. Don't overtighten the screws. Just up to snug tightness.
Jan 15, 24 1:50 am ·
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natematt
They are still never going to upgrade any of the hardware in their laptop. And by that I very much mean they are never going to pay someone else to do it either. Like most people, they will get a new laptop when this one reaches its useful life.
Laptops useful life with the stock available 16GB or 32 GB memory that the put into it are only good for 18-24 months. Maybe 3 years if you are lucky? Why? We sites are practically doubling in size almost every 2-3 years. Just running a single website can suck up about 500 MEGABYTES. On average, a website consumes about 150-300 MB. That would double in about 2-3 years. This means, your average activity on web browsers that you WILL be doing concurrently with your Revit work is simply going to take up more space. Why is it so large and fat in bloat.... BLOAT that makes your website so spiffy and animated and all.... more and more like full on web applications than traditional websites of the 90s. We don't live in 1990s era web even though this site is rather lightweight. But guess what memory footprint this website is like, 100-250 MB in Opera. Even though your image might be scaled on display, the images used are frequently high resolution and consumes a lot of space and that is transmitted to the user's computer to then be processed and displayed in the browser. Basically, web browsers downloads the website into a temp space on the hard drive AND in RAM memory to be processed. I know I somewhat oversimplified that but that is how it works fundamentally for the most part. That is how HTML, Javascript, CSS, etc. works as they are client-side markup, scripting, and other client-side web languages.
My setup is a laptop that can chug through what it needs to and a desktop that does all the heavy lifting. A laptop alone can be limiting unless you really spend a lot.
Also, if this is a surprise, you should have a good understanding of the limitations of Apple computers for some of the software architects use. I too only used MacBook pros for years, but I got tired of the workarounds and limitations for Rhino and Revit. I know the Mac versions have come a long way, but I'm not sure if they're equiv yet. Someone else might know.
To me, Apple's products are kind of overpriced and not quite on the top of the heap of performance per $. Top that off with some limitations on software. From OS robustness, I prefer Linux but it's native software options are limited not much different than Mac's MacOS in terms of there be limitations but I usually custom build my desktop PCs. All the software she would use is available for Windows and although Windows has its own problems like the neverending story of Windows updates, it's more likely she'll get the software she needs and run performantly with it on Windows. As a student, she's probably going to work in a workplace with Windows, anyway. She'll want a good computer that performs even if it is a laptop. It is trickier to upgrade laptops video card. Not for the timid as they tend to be particularly fragile and there is nothing very uniform about how laptops enclosures are made. This is why I prefer desktop computers because I can build them with highest performance and upgrade. Upgrading a laptop is sometimes limited to just the ram or harddrive (with ease). Beyond that, it can get a lot harder and you have to be delicate and pay attention to those thin ribbon strips and micro-coax cable and such. Technical stuff. I've dealt with it before.
Jan 12, 24 3:24 am ·
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Jay1122
The Macbook $$ vs performance thing is true only if you ignore the laptop form factor and get those big fat heavy gaming laptops. If you are in the market for slim high performance ultrabooks with high specs, the price is not far from the Macbook. The software environment is better on windows though.
Who gives a bleep? Really. A few inch thickness means nothing. In fact, that thickness may make a difference in how well it ventilates the heat. That Razer Blade 18 is probably sleek like the MacBook and would outperform it. Apple would be charging 50% more overall in cost to make a system that equally performs. As for software environment, woopie do. You are all using stuff derived from Amiga back in 1985. Seriously. Learned how to actually make preemptive multitasking a decade later. Come on. It is cosmetic stuff. I can make a Linux computer look like Mac. Given Windows (Microsoft owned proprietary rights), I can't easily change the desktop environment and windowing manager systems. Pretty tightly integrated. But that gaming laptop also has the performance power to do what Revit does because it has a more powerful CPU and GPU that inadvertantly means it would require more heat emission. There are laws of physics you can't overcome.
Macs are now using an non-x86 based CPU so it is proprietary again like they were with PPC but even more so in a sense. All the major architecture software is COMPILED to x86 (64-bit). This means to run it, it must in runtime translate that x86 code to the ARM based instruction set of the M1, M2 or M3 CPU. This will ALWAYS come with a performance impact. It is practically impossible given effective CPU clock cycles per instruction operations of the Intel CPUs with its superscalar pipeline architecture for an M3 CPU to run x86 apps at a 1 to 1 ratio clock cycle to clock cycle to that of an intel x86 based processor. It takes easily a few instructions operations or more to translate instructions. Only way to do it with most efficiency is a hardware based translation which might get it down to about 2/3 performance of an actual x86 CPU at the same clock cycle or some increase in number of cores. If each M3's core is only about 50% as performant as an x86 core, then you need not 8 cores to match a 4 core x86 CPU when trying to run x86-64 ISA code, but maybe 12 cores. So to match those 14 core Intel Core i9 CPUs, then you are talking 42 cores. More likely 50 cores. If the M3 core to core performance were 1:1, you still talking 1.5x as many cores (21 cores) or about 25 cores in reality when running Windows apps in the MacOS. This can get complicated when you comparing instruction set architectures and performance. Each application will have different mileage. What you can realistically expect is that the x86 "emulation" (or hardware translation) will likely come with still a performance penalty for the process of translating x86 ISA to ARM even with hardware.
How this will effect running Revit on Mac using an non-Intel CPU? Just think back to the days of PPC Macs running Windows. There's an impact. Everyone noticed that Windows apps (which are x86) ran slower on Mac even when the Mac has the same MHz or GHz rating and system memory. When Mac was running on the same CPUs as Windows PCs, it was easier to get a 1:1 ratio by literally booting the Mac in Windows. If not, and running in MacOS, you might get about 80-90% performance. This is because there was a performance impact with the translation across the OS APIs.
There is all this stuff, as architects of buildings or students in Architecture school, you don't think about that is going on under the hood that you don't see. Your Macbook will almost always will run slower than the same spec PC (provide the same spec PC isn't running a ton of cpu taxing security programs.
Yes, MacOS will unlikely be subject to computer viruses as often as Windows but then Apple isn't a prime target because an "alternative" computer OS and platform competing against the 'evil' Microsoft that the hackers have an issue with the big corporate Microsoft since the 1990s. If Apple became the main computer & OS company then they would be the target of virus exploits. Just because someone chooses not to make a virus for your computer doesn't mean it is a secure OS. There can be a number of security holes that the hackers chose NOT to exploit... yet. So keep that in mind. There are almost no computer virus that can kill my Commodore 64 but there are computer viruses that can be made to mess with GEOS because the OS is a disk-based OS so it is on a rewritable media. Even Linux is not impervious.
Most hackers use alternative OSs to write up their computer viruses targetting a particular platform and never write them against their favorite alternative OS like the one they are using. Dirty little secret given the hackers are using Linux and MacOS and writing computer viruses. Many of them are former Microsoft employees so they know the inner making of the OS and probably have a copy of the source code and documents that they 'pirated' from their former employer while they were there.
If you are going to use architecture software that is made for WINDOWS then use a computer that runs Windows to run the app. Revit is for Windows, not Mac.
DebbieJ, you can ignore the long computer techie talk there. It's a point made. Generally, the point that matters is:
If you are going to use architecture software that is made for WINDOWS then use a computer that runs Windows to run the app. Revit is for Windows, not Mac.
So the software tools being used are going to matter.
Good morning! It's great to hear that your daughter is pursuing architecture. When looking for a reliable laptop, I recommend considering specifications such as a powerful processor (Intel Core i7 or AMD Ryzen), ample RAM (16GB or more), and a dedicated graphics card (NVIDIA or AMD). Popular brands like Dell XPS, HP Spectre, and MacBook Pro are known for their quality. It's important to prioritize a high-resolution display and SSD storage for seamless design work. Happy laptop hunting!
I'd go with 32 GB minimum but ideally 64 GB with expansion to 128GB to 256 GB or more. 16 GB is mediocre and minimum already just for web browsing. Got to plan for a 2-3 year before RAM upgrade.
Jan 12, 24 3:53 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
Ricky, you’re responding to a fortune cookie writing bot. Besides that, max today is 192gb ddr5 with 4x48 in a tower. It’s not reasonable for a 2nd year undergrad student to pay such a premium for gear they will only use a small fraction.
upgrade option means, you might buy it in the future. There is larger capacity modules that exists in research lab. Just because it isn't on the store shelves of Amazon or NewEgg doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Intel has its own foundries so it can produce its own chips including memories chips and make a memory module for testing purposes.
Intel has its own foundries so it can manufacture its own modules. In some test boards, they have three SO-DIMM slots. Some if they follow the JEDEC standard, the largest theoretical capacity module is 128 GB modules. As long as that is met from CPU socket to the memory module. Then it will be the individual CPU itself that makes the difference aside from some manufacturer actually make the memory module of that size. The SO-DIMM spec for DDR5 does allow for that size capacity for a individual memory socket.
How might they make such a module? Make a module that is 2-3 times the footprint but same width. Which is possible to be made and inserted into the socket area. There's enough clearance area for it on a unit like the Asus ROG Strix SCAR 18.
In a couple years, you'll have 64 GB SO-DIMM modules that will cost maybe as much as a 32 GB module today. It might cost 2/3 that amount in a year after that. Extending the useful life of that laptop another 2-3 years so in 6 years, a new laptop can be acquired at that point. Which would be doable for a student to do after 1-2 years of solid employment. In 2-3 years of gainful employment after college and some part time saving, only spending $200 or so to upgrade to 128 GB in 3 years from now but saving cumulatively more than that from part-time work. Putting away $750-$1000 a year a way for the next laptop while budget conscious decision made to make loan repayments, pay rent/utilities, food, etc.
What is with all the bash on the Mac. I have a 16" Mac book pro. Revit can run on windows using parallels. Mac has native rhino, sketchup, enscape, cad, office and adobe suite. The build quality is very nice. The OS is smooth. I am sure the machine will last a long time. It is a fine machine if you can shell out the dough. I rarely use the Arch programs though. Already enough of those from work.
For architecture school, I probably would go with MSI entry level gaming laptop. Shouldn't the students have access to a dedicated studio space? I think all the design schools assign students their studio desk. It is best to get a desktop set up in the studio. Stay in the studio and focus on the work. Use the old laptop for other generic classes for essays and researches.
Mac isn't bad systems but a little overpriced for any given performance specs and factual limitations because it is NOT the OS that all the software is developed for. Additionally, runnin a non-native app on any OS results in performance reduction as compared to the app running natively in its native OS environment is was designed for when all hardware specs are equal. Apple may be popular for a single proprietary platform that isn't the industry standard OS. Microsoft won the OS war on desktop and laptop computers because while only one manufacturer makes Apple, every computer manufacturer of any recognition makes Windows PCs. There's more different manufacturers that makes Linux or an Amiga operating system (AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS, etc.) based compatible PC than Apple although not likely to the volume of Apple makes (especially the latter and no individual Linux PC manufacturer makes as many PCs running Linux as Apple makes of Mac) of Macs but Windows PC volume is many times greater. Even if no single PC maker makes as many of any model of PCs as Apple may make of Mac. Apple is just one manufacturer even if successful, doesn't have the PC market cornered.
Jan 12, 24 4:03 pm ·
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Student Architect
Good morning, my daughter is a architecture student working towards her b. Arch - going into 2nd year.
wanting to update her laptop, but unsure where to start. Most recommendations on pages appear to be Paid opinions, so looking for some real life independent advice.
Thanks
Probably a desktop is a better choice - as your daughter goes into higher classes, the graphic work gets more intense so a computer with solid graphics card, memory etc would be more desirable than a laptop.
She currently has Macbook, but we are upgrading that as it lags. Not looking for desktops at the moment.
I agree with the desktop recommendation. To get a laptop which can do heavy lifting with things like Revit and Twinmotion, you'd need a top-of-the-line ThinkPad doorstop or some eye-wateringly expensive gaming laptop.
Anything you would use for that, you'd be paying a lot of money for because even then, if I want to do heavy lifting for that stuff, I'm looking at $10,000 in getting the best video card, most RAM and fastest RAM modules for system memory, and the fastest and most cores in a CPU (be it Intel or AMD) and best motherboard. Basically, the best computer you can possibly buy that isn't a minicomputer (a computer the size of a floor to ceiling cabinet or 2-3 file cabinets in size computer or a mainframe/supercomputer like any of the TOP500 supercomputers which as so far outside the budget of this student and her mother unless her mother makes the kind of money of Elon Musk. These aren't practical for a dorm at all. So a top of the line gaming desktop there is, is what I would be using for heavy rendering and doing it fast. A lesser computer just means it takes longer to do the rendering.
thanks for your feedback, and no I don't have the resources of Elon Musk :)
Invest in a good set of sketching pencils, pens, markers, and paper. A better/ more expensive computer does not make a better student. Also, don’t waste $ on Apple.
She already has all of that, and has been selling pieces of her artwork for a few year prior to entering Uni. Just looking for advice / recommendations on upgrading her Laptop please.
asus rog strix.
it does not have the superficial sex appeal of the mac pro and it's thicker/heavier... but it'll kick any of the sleek laptops of her classmates. My original point still stands tho. You don't need a beast to make good design visuals.
Excellent, Non. I love that you emphasize the wonderful basics. Your next post then starts with three words I had to Google, because I thought your keyboard got stuck for a minute =O]
Besides investing in the non-computer tools. I would recommend actually both a desktop and a laptop. The desktop in her dorm or studio (if the latter can be properly secured). The laptop would and should be a high end gaming grade laptop because the graphic chipset is highly performant for laptops and would perform adequately for some of her work that she would need on the go and taking class notes. I recommend also that she have a good phone or tablet to take snapshot of slides and all. This is not cheap, I know. But this should be good for 3 years and the desktop can be suitable for heavy workload like rendering for up to about 6 years or so with upgrade in video card at some point. The laptop would suit presentations and writing reports and stuff not requiring quite the heavy rendering power of the desktop but can do some rendering. The desktop can be working on some heavy rendering from her dorm, for example, while she is not in the dorm. You just don't take the desktop with you. Too heavy for that to be practical. A tablet or smartphone just won't be good for that. It can be fine for photo taking and maybe some note taking. It will be up to her in how she uses them together efficiently.
If you do in fact get only a laptop, it should be a high end laptop with powerful graphics.
thanks so much for the feedback.
asus rog strix with a 4080 or 4090 RTX or a Razer Blade 18 with a 4080 or 4090. These or equivalent would be what I would recommend for a laptop. These aren't cheap with the 4080 and higher. I would not recommend less than 8 GB of Graphic memory. This could serve 3-5 years. Keep in mind that it will likely take longer to render than a desktop PC with the same general but full discrete video card. It won't perform as fast as a desktop with a 4080 or 4090 video card because the laptop is using mobile versions of the GPUs that are tuned down for energy efficiency some for laptop use. However, it may be more powerful than the desktop computers you'll find a lot of in most universities which are likely Dells or somthing not as full on on the top of the line. They may be performant but schools tend to put stuff for "security" that becausely destroys the real world performance turning them into slugs.
i like the MS surface. the touch screen and portability are very useful. get the fastest one and revit/ enscape should be fine.
The Surface is a great mobility solution. Combined with a powerful desktop computer, a design student would have everything they need.
It might hurt her street cred, but switching to a gaming laptop might be your best bet. Macbooks don't get good air circulation and tend to overheat quickly, whereas something like Omen 16 has multiple settings for the cooling and runs pretty good graphics. That's what I have and I was able to customize it to not be too bulky/expensive; I got it in 2020 and its still in good condition too.
I'm biased because I like my own laptop, but the others such as the Asus and Razor mentioned above are great choices too.
I have a Lenovo Legion Pro
5and it’s been running Revit and Enscape like a champ. I recommend it,
Ok don’t know what happened. Lenovo Legion 5 Pro Gen 8 16”, runs everything well with the caveat that you need to turn off a setting that lets the computer turn off your Bluetooth to save power.
Have been looking at the Lenov Legion one and now the Asus rog strix too, so thanks for your feedback, very helpful.
Regardless of if you get a desktop or laptop get a large monitor that your daughter can plug into. I mean large! (Time for a meta image)
No disagreement. Can be a 4k smart TV (probably recommend one from Samsung or similar established name brand) as it would serve as a TV and computer monitor. Of course, you don't take this or a monitor with you as you go but when at the dorm working on the assignments then yes. The laptop screen I was suggesting by the models suggested would be 17"-19" screen (typical for quality gaming laptop but I go agree when in her dorm, a 32-42 inch screen may be appropriate to have. 48" would be on the upper end for a dorm room space but at the sizes around 40" would give a decent screen real estate area. I would have a quality mouse or trackball. At some point but not necessarily now, I would consider a Wacom One that can be used with the Laptop. It's like the Cintiq models but smaller and less pricey but can work for aspects of her classwork in the architecture courses.
The suggestion for using a smart TV that's 4K or higher resolution is it can serve both TV and computer display uses at the same time with just an HDMI or DisplayPort cable.
I suggest a smart tv if she doesn't have one already at the 4K level screen resolution is that it will serve the purpose Chad was referring to AND also serve the other use a student in college will need from time to time... TV for entertainment to relax every so often from the course work. There just might not be enough physical space for a TV, a laptop, and yet another large monitor because of how much space there is to work with. Those are important considerations for students.
Love it thankyou
Setup and personal preference are everything with monitors. Larger monitors or TVs in particular, are less ideal if you want to sit up close to your screen. Also, you may want to consider if your child will want to park a monitor in their room or in their studio space. A TV on a desk in studio may not be ideal.
This brings up another important point. Laptop size. For comparison. A 17" gaming laptop will be bigger, bulkier, and heavier than the largest MacBook you can buy. This can be a serious downside for a commuter.
I don't know your daughter, but I'd look at this aspect in person if you can. I suspect you would not want to exceed a 17" screen, and may in fact want to go down.
I can carry this luggable:
I think she can carry any gaming laptop in a suitable size laptop bag. Seriously. I'm not built like Arnold in build so I think a gaming laptop, although heavier than a MacBook might be, it nowhere the weight of that beast above from the 1980s.
In this day and age, most colleges are already moving towards having an ebook version of their class textbook available on the course website (even for IN-PERSON classes) especially since COVID. They don't necessarily take their books to class and back to dorm like the old days.
A gaming laptop might weigh as much as my ol' Amiga 500. and not to be confused with any one of these "minis" gimmicks made these days.
Just that weighed about 7 lbs. PSU and mouse would be something stick in a bag on a shoulder and take stick the keyboard/computer on the other side under your arm with your hand gripping it. That same way as done with the Commodore 128 that weighted only 5.5 lbs.
Commodore 128 System Guide
Page 9 of the PDF. An Amiga 500 would be carried in the same manner. It is also similar to how people carry laptops without using the laptop carry bag. The computer isn't that heavy to carry.
Point is, the laptops these days aren't that heavy. They might weigh up to about the weight of the Amiga 500 computer/keyboard but the laptop is keyboard, computer, and display and data storage medium all in one. It can be conveniently carried in a laptop bag along with a usb stick.
Since we are being anecdotal, my professional experience probably has a sample size of around 1000 people that I’ve known who used laptops in a professional/school context for architecture... based only on comments and complaints I’ve heard, often repeatedly, a not insignificant portion of those people would much prefer smaller laptops. This really depends on the person, the way you commute, and how you want to be able to carry it.
Similarly, how much it inconveniences you one way or another is a personal matter.
People can be wimpy and whiny or they can choose to quick being that way. Period. If you want to be an architect, you are going to need to be able to carry heavier things like your physical models may very well be, so maybe that laptop helps with arm muscle strength. You wouldn't simultaneously carry five 2-3 inch thick textbooks, a physical model, and the laptop at the exact same time. You take separate trips.
Now with digital e-books of the textbooks you will likely have access to in class, you will likely be using those and leave the physical books in your dorm. You likely will take a separate trip to bring in the model separate from your laptop. Two trips. I have that point of reference to. I've been in a school with 1000 different architecture students and many more different students in total at the university.
I've heard whiny people whine like babies for decades so come on.
A Macbook weighs around (depending on the model) the weight of the Commodore 64 keyboard/computer unit. Seriously, can't easily carry a 5 or 10lb bag of sugar? (rhetorical)
You’re right Richard, there is absolutely no medical research on the impact of carrying heavy bags, especially not with particular consideration for shoulder bags that may be used for computers, on people’s physical health that would suggest it may cause issues such as neck/back/shoulder injury. none. If you can lift it once, you can lift it and carry it around with unnatural weight distribution for a prolonged period of time repeatedly, I am sure.
Using a 15” screen though. Unthinkable.
I don't know about screen size. The monitor in my image is 38" and slightly curved. I sit 20" away from the monitor and don't have any issues. If I want I cant get a few inches from the screen and don't have any loss of resolution. That's probably why the monitors cost around $1,500 each. :s
nattmatt, we're not talking 23 to 25 lbs luggables like the SX-64. All this scientific research of personal injuries of the most pathetically weak limp-arm people out there, then yes. A person should be able to carry a 5-8 lb laptop anywhere for an hour straight. I had in my 20s, carried a laptop to class.... 4+ miles away by foot. Now, that might be a stretch for continuous duration. what college or university campus site is 4 miles? You'd more likely drive than walk that distance. We are talking what, 3-5 city blocks maybe from a dorm to classroom. You wouldn't have it on your shoulder all the time. A university campus distance might comparable in distance from a dorm to a particular class like it is to go from my house to the my local community college main campus location (which is about 3-5 blocks east to west by 4 blocks up hill) so yeah. Those who knows my address can gauge that pretty straightforward but not posting my exact address. It's not that hard for a student especially any student who is physically fit and not woefully out of shape.
My commuter laptop for grad school weighed about 10lbs with the charger (can’t forget the accessories which tend to also be larger with larger laptops). Anyway, just because that didn’t bother me, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t bother someone else. Repetitive strain injuries exist.
MSI have worked wonderful for our office
Don't be tricked into the hype of a lot of the marketing game. Lenovo Thinkpads while looking obscurely outdated generally have unbelievable components and can run Revit, Escape, Rhino and about every Adobe all at once. I have put mine through a million paces and my current office is all on Thinkpad laptops. Highly recommend looking into them.
Thankyou, we have been looking at Lenovo and now the Asus rog strix too. Thanks for your feedback
You should get away from mac for architecture school.
A laptop can work fine. Find a mid to high range gaming laptop by a company you like and there you go. You should be able to get away with $1500-2000 range. It’s hard to broadly characterize the system requirements anymore given that the performance values of CPUs and GPUs don’t really line up with the naming systems. However, most of the GPU and CPU stuff you get at that range will work for architecture school. I think a couple architecture specific issues would be making sure you have enough RAM, specifically I’d go for 32 gigs at this point in time, but most of the laptops with this default might be overpowerd on other fronts. Also, you don’t need the crazy screen refresh rates for architecture, so don’t find yourself paying for that if you can avoid it.
I’d also agree on a second monitor even with the laptop. Though I’d probably not go with something quite as large myself, and then dual monitor with my laptop.
32 GB of initial RAM. If you can get 64GB right off the bat, great. Ideally, it should be upgradeable to 128 GB or 256 GB or higher in system RAM. When looking at specs on laptops, like desktop, is upgradeability of the main memory (not talking about the video memory but main system memory). There is generally two types of memory listed in tech specs. One that is directly associated with the GPU/Video Card and the other is the main system memory. When I am talking memory, I am talking RAM. Hard drive and SSD are long term storage and is separate from RAM. The recommended laptops like the Asus ROG Strix and Razer Blade are likely to be upgradeable to 128 GB or higher main system memory RAM. Gaming computers even laptops are usually upgradeable beyond 64 GB. This would allow her to bump up the RAM in a year or two to 128 GB or 256 GB. This would give a fair service life up to about 4-6 years. Especially if she picks up an external hard drive for off loading her past homework to to free up internal hard drive. I recommend at least 1-2 TB internal hard drive. If the system is allows upgradeability to higher capacity, it will likely be upgradeable to 4-8 TB or even 12 TB. Then again, 2-4 TB internal is fine if you have an 8TB or higher external HD to store the stuff to. For her student work, should be fine. Always can buy a second external HD later and plug it in especially if you keep games and personal stuff on that and school work and possibly professional stuff on that when it is no longer needs to be on the internal hard drive. Just an idea and how one can organize their stuff.
Richard,
Fair point noting the GPU vs system. Disagree on the points you’re making.
Most gaming laptops won’t support more than 64gb of system memory. It is unlikely this person will upgrade their memory before they get a new computer. 32gb is a solid number at this point if you’re looking to be at least a little cost considerate. At the point where 64gb stops cutting it they would probably need to replace the laptop for other hardware limitations anyway.
I think all gaming laptops use NVMe solid state drives for storage at this point, which is good… but it means that it’s more expensive to just splurge on storage, and also that a lot of cost considerate buying options are probably going to limit you to something like 4tb. I don’t know how much students accumulate these days, so it’s hard for me to say but I doubt you’d need more than 2TB of storage unless you’re downloading AAA video games. I’d probably go with 2tb of storage and get an external if you are really that much of a mess. Again, I highly doubt this person will ever upgrade or want to upgrade their storage. Of the two this seems much less meaningful, since you can always just external all your non system files.
If money is no option, then they should just go nuts.
You got to think 4 DIMENSIONALLY. Think future. Also think about how RAM improves the system resources and reduce rendering time especially wit complex stuff. While the internal hard drive may be an NVMe SSD. That's fine. You aren't limited to NVMe SSDs for external hard drives.
I'm talking about room for running not just Revit but also memory resources for web browser content that can be rather bloaty in memory but not necessarily CPU intensive. That's what I am getting at. Some things can use a lot of memory but doesn't necessarily use a lot of percentage of CPU. Understand where I am coming from?
I’m working on a professional architecture laptop right now doing professional stuff. 32gb is fine.
Revit is a memory monster, but I can’t recall the last time I ran out of memory. This person is probably not even going to be doing Revit in school. Other softwares like rhino or adobe are more likely to be the heavy lift for them, but even along with internet this shouldn’t really be a limiting factor. If they wanted to spend the extra money on just one thing, then yes this would be a good choice, and it’s not as expensive as upgrading other aspects of the computer. There is almost no way this person will ever need more than 64gb of ram on this computer, and the necessity of getting a laptop that can take a 128+ upgrade is basically zero.
BTW: The Razer Blade 18 could support higher capacity memory. With two memory slots up to 64 GB SODIMM per slot. That is because the CPU supports that capacity in the memory controller that is built into the CPU. They only factory tested to 32 GB modules as a manufacturer. Usually, you can double the factory original upper limit listed. The Asus ROG Strix SCAR 18 (2024 and maybe 2023) is likely to actually be able to support 128 GB. Even if it is a BIOS update. The CPU is more than capable of registering upwards of 192 GB of memory according to Intel technical specs.
The CPUs used were already engineered by Intel to support 64GB and 96 GB SO-DIMM modules. Intel tested that in their labs. Razer and Asus just haven't confirmed their units can support it because they haven't had those modules to test with. As long as they are faithful electronically to the reference kit board schematics closely enough and wired up all the memory trace lines accordingly, it'll likely support it, hardware wise. It will just be a matter of time when those modules come out. So I can realistically see 128 GB support supported on the unit as an upper end. It is unclear the 96 GB modules comes out to commercial market by the time they switch over to DDR6. The next gen after DDR5. So, there you have it. DDR5 is likely to be supported up to 64 GB SO-DIMM modules for a few more years. Pair of 64 GB modules for 128 GB of memory would provide extend her use to about 2030. At that time, we'll be approaching DDR 8 or something that may replace the whole DDR concept. High-end gaming grade 13th and 14th gen Intel mobile Core i9 cpus are going to provide some support her academic needs. When she graduates or after a couple years of employment after college, she may be able to upgrade then.
That's interesting information. They are still never going to upgrade any of the hardware in their laptop.
Then you by the largest ram modules around and have them installed by a computer professional, dimwit. If there is a door on the bottom of the laptop held in by an individual screw then you can actually upgrade the ram modules. You don't have to be a software developer / programmer with 30+ years of experience with experience making PCBs for game cartridges, soldering on chips and components. No. Two screws and right size and fitting (almost always a philips head) screw driver. Counter clockwise turning to losen and then press a couple tabs to remove memory module and then insert memory module aligning the alignment notch in the ram module with the socket so it inserts properly one way with relatively mild insertion pressure clipping in. the putting the memory compartment lid back on and put the screws back in and clockwise turning with the screw driver to tighten screw to snug. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. You can always pay some computer professional $100 to install it. Bill you a minimum 1 hour fee even if it only takes maybe 5 minutes. It's basically a flat initial fee and calculated after that in maybe 15 minute units of time (or about $25 units of time). Some might be as low as $60 an hour or $15 per 15 minute unit. That's was normal amount for computer repair shops 20 years ago.
If you have an easily accessible compartment to access memory and replace it then it would be easy. Those are usually identified as compartments with memory access. Here's how easy it is to actually access the memory area of the Asus ROG Strix SCAR 18:
Remove 11 screws or whatever. Don't even have to remove the battery as indicated in the video because the battery isn't in the way. You can use something like a guitar pick to free up the lid at the beginning. The battery removal is not needed to be removed to access the SO-DIMM memory. You can change memory module and upgrade them and then put the lid back on and screws back in. Could be done in 15 minutes. First time, could take you that long or longer simply because of nervousness with doing something you never done before kind of stuff. The video points clearly where the memory module goes.
Practically, a trained monkey can do this. Parts of the video are something, she would never have to be messing with as a non-computer professional like the heatsink stuff removal. So you can ignore that. Replacing the battery, could be ignored unless the battery is going bad for some reason. Not terribly difficult. The m.2 SSD (NVMe could be something she could self install or have a computer pro do. The ram upgrade is simple enough. This is actually rather easy to laptop to do this stuff with.
Basically, you do the first 38 seconds in reverse order to put the lid and screws back in. Just have a tidy area and some dish or something to put the screws in when you remove the screws and put it back. It is just keeping track of the steps and sequence and gently clipping back in the lid as maybe so it looks correctly. Don't overtighten the screws. Just up to snug tightness.
They are still never going to upgrade any of the hardware in their laptop. And by that I very much mean they are never going to pay someone else to do it either. Like most people, they will get a new laptop when this one reaches its useful life.
Laptops useful life with the stock available 16GB or 32 GB memory that the put into it are only good for 18-24 months. Maybe 3 years if you are lucky? Why? We sites are practically doubling in size almost every 2-3 years. Just running a single website can suck up about 500 MEGABYTES. On average, a website consumes about 150-300 MB. That would double in about 2-3 years. This means, your average activity on web browsers that you WILL be doing concurrently with your Revit work is simply going to take up more space. Why is it so large and fat in bloat.... BLOAT that makes your website so spiffy and animated and all.... more and more like full on web applications than traditional websites of the 90s. We don't live in 1990s era web even though this site is rather lightweight. But guess what memory footprint this website is like, 100-250 MB in Opera. Even though your image might be scaled on display, the images used are frequently high resolution and consumes a lot of space and that is transmitted to the user's computer to then be processed and displayed in the browser. Basically, web browsers downloads the website into a temp space on the hard drive AND in RAM memory to be processed. I know I somewhat oversimplified that but that is how it works fundamentally for the most part. That is how HTML, Javascript, CSS, etc. works as they are client-side markup, scripting, and other client-side web languages.
My setup is a laptop that can chug through what it needs to and a desktop that does all the heavy lifting. A laptop alone can be limiting unless you really spend a lot.
Also, if this is a surprise, you should have a good understanding of the limitations of Apple computers for some of the software architects use. I too only used MacBook pros for years, but I got tired of the workarounds and limitations for Rhino and Revit. I know the Mac versions have come a long way, but I'm not sure if they're equiv yet. Someone else might know.
To me, Apple's products are kind of overpriced and not quite on the top of the heap of performance per $. Top that off with some limitations on software. From OS robustness, I prefer Linux but it's native software options are limited not much different than Mac's MacOS in terms of there be limitations but I usually custom build my desktop PCs. All the software she would use is available for Windows and although Windows has its own problems like the neverending story of Windows updates, it's more likely she'll get the software she needs and run performantly with it on Windows. As a student, she's probably going to work in a workplace with Windows, anyway. She'll want a good computer that performs even if it is a laptop. It is trickier to upgrade laptops video card. Not for the timid as they tend to be particularly fragile and there is nothing very uniform about how laptops enclosures are made. This is why I prefer desktop computers because I can build them with highest performance and upgrade. Upgrading a laptop is sometimes limited to just the ram or harddrive (with ease). Beyond that, it can get a lot harder and you have to be delicate and pay attention to those thin ribbon strips and micro-coax cable and such. Technical stuff. I've dealt with it before.
The Macbook $$ vs performance thing is true only if you ignore the laptop form factor and get those big fat heavy gaming laptops. If you are in the market for slim high performance ultrabooks with high specs, the price is not far from the Macbook. The software environment is better on windows though.
Who gives a bleep? Really. A few inch thickness means nothing. In fact, that thickness may make a difference in how well it ventilates the heat. That Razer Blade 18 is probably sleek like the MacBook and would outperform it. Apple would be charging 50% more overall in cost to make a system that equally performs. As for software environment, woopie do. You are all using stuff derived from Amiga back in 1985. Seriously. Learned how to actually make preemptive multitasking a decade later. Come on. It is cosmetic stuff. I can make a Linux computer look like Mac. Given Windows (Microsoft owned proprietary rights), I can't easily change the desktop environment and windowing manager systems. Pretty tightly integrated. But that gaming laptop also has the performance power to do what Revit does because it has a more powerful CPU and GPU that inadvertantly means it would require more heat emission. There are laws of physics you can't overcome.
Macs are now using an non-x86 based CPU so it is proprietary again like they were with PPC but even more so in a sense. All the major architecture software is COMPILED to x86 (64-bit). This means to run it, it must in runtime translate that x86 code to the ARM based instruction set of the M1, M2 or M3 CPU. This will ALWAYS come with a performance impact. It is practically impossible given effective CPU clock cycles per instruction operations of the Intel CPUs with its superscalar pipeline architecture for an M3 CPU to run x86 apps at a 1 to 1 ratio clock cycle to clock cycle to that of an intel x86 based processor. It takes easily a few instructions operations or more to translate instructions. Only way to do it with most efficiency is a hardware based translation which might get it down to about 2/3 performance of an actual x86 CPU at the same clock cycle or some increase in number of cores. If each M3's core is only about 50% as performant as an x86 core, then you need not 8 cores to match a 4 core x86 CPU when trying to run x86-64 ISA code, but maybe 12 cores. So to match those 14 core Intel Core i9 CPUs, then you are talking 42 cores. More likely 50 cores. If the M3 core to core performance were 1:1, you still talking 1.5x as many cores (21 cores) or about 25 cores in reality when running Windows apps in the MacOS. This can get complicated when you comparing instruction set architectures and performance. Each application will have different mileage. What you can realistically expect is that the x86 "emulation" (or hardware translation) will likely come with still a performance penalty for the process of translating x86 ISA to ARM even with hardware.
How this will effect running Revit on Mac using an non-Intel CPU? Just think back to the days of PPC Macs running Windows. There's an impact. Everyone noticed that Windows apps (which are x86) ran slower on Mac even when the Mac has the same MHz or GHz rating and system memory. When Mac was running on the same CPUs as Windows PCs, it was easier to get a 1:1 ratio by literally booting the Mac in Windows. If not, and running in MacOS, you might get about 80-90% performance. This is because there was a performance impact with the translation across the OS APIs.
There is all this stuff, as architects of buildings or students in Architecture school, you don't think about that is going on under the hood that you don't see. Your Macbook will almost always will run slower than the same spec PC (provide the same spec PC isn't running a ton of cpu taxing security programs.
Yes, MacOS will unlikely be subject to computer viruses as often as Windows but then Apple isn't a prime target because an "alternative" computer OS and platform competing against the 'evil' Microsoft that the hackers have an issue with the big corporate Microsoft since the 1990s. If Apple became the main computer & OS company then they would be the target of virus exploits. Just because someone chooses not to make a virus for your computer doesn't mean it is a secure OS. There can be a number of security holes that the hackers chose NOT to exploit... yet. So keep that in mind. There are almost no computer virus that can kill my Commodore 64 but there are computer viruses that can be made to mess with GEOS because the OS is a disk-based OS so it is on a rewritable media. Even Linux is not impervious.
Most hackers use alternative OSs to write up their computer viruses targetting a particular platform and never write them against their favorite alternative OS like the one they are using. Dirty little secret given the hackers are using Linux and MacOS and writing computer viruses. Many of them are former Microsoft employees so they know the inner making of the OS and probably have a copy of the source code and documents that they 'pirated' from their former employer while they were there.
If you are going to use architecture software that is made for WINDOWS then use a computer that runs Windows to run the app. Revit is for Windows, not Mac.
DebbieJ, you can ignore the long computer techie talk there. It's a point made. Generally, the point that matters is:
If you are going to use architecture software that is made for WINDOWS then use a computer that runs Windows to run the app. Revit is for Windows, not Mac.
So the software tools being used are going to matter.
Good morning! It's great to hear that your daughter is pursuing architecture. When looking for a reliable laptop, I recommend considering specifications such as a powerful processor (Intel Core i7 or AMD Ryzen), ample RAM (16GB or more), and a dedicated graphics card (NVIDIA or AMD). Popular brands like Dell XPS, HP Spectre, and MacBook Pro are known for their quality. It's important to prioritize a high-resolution display and SSD storage for seamless design work. Happy laptop hunting!
I'd go with 32 GB minimum but ideally 64 GB with expansion to 128GB to 256 GB or more. 16 GB is mediocre and minimum already just for web browsing. Got to plan for a 2-3 year before RAM upgrade.
Ricky, you’re responding to a fortune cookie writing bot. Besides that, max today is 192gb ddr5 with 4x48 in a tower. It’s not reasonable for a 2nd year undergrad student to pay such a premium for gear they will only use a small fraction.
upgrade option means, you might buy it in the future. There is larger capacity modules that exists in research lab. Just because it isn't on the store shelves of Amazon or NewEgg doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Intel has its own foundries so it can produce its own chips including memories chips and make a memory module for testing purposes.
Intel has its own foundries so it can manufacture its own modules. In some test boards, they have three SO-DIMM slots. Some if they follow the JEDEC standard, the largest theoretical capacity module is 128 GB modules. As long as that is met from CPU socket to the memory module. Then it will be the individual CPU itself that makes the difference aside from some manufacturer actually make the memory module of that size. The SO-DIMM spec for DDR5 does allow for that size capacity for a individual memory socket.
How might they make such a module? Make a module that is 2-3 times the footprint but same width. Which is possible to be made and inserted into the socket area. There's enough clearance area for it on a unit like the Asus ROG Strix SCAR 18.
In a couple years, you'll have 64 GB SO-DIMM modules that will cost maybe as much as a 32 GB module today. It might cost 2/3 that amount in a year after that. Extending the useful life of that laptop another 2-3 years so in 6 years, a new laptop can be acquired at that point. Which would be doable for a student to do after 1-2 years of solid employment. In 2-3 years of gainful employment after college and some part time saving, only spending $200 or so to upgrade to 128 GB in 3 years from now but saving cumulatively more than that from part-time work. Putting away $750-$1000 a year a way for the next laptop while budget conscious decision made to make loan repayments, pay rent/utilities, food, etc.
What is with all the bash on the Mac. I have a 16" Mac book pro. Revit can run on windows using parallels. Mac has native rhino, sketchup, enscape, cad, office and adobe suite. The build quality is very nice. The OS is smooth. I am sure the machine will last a long time. It is a fine machine if you can shell out the dough. I rarely use the Arch programs though. Already enough of those from work.
For architecture school, I probably would go with MSI entry level gaming laptop. Shouldn't the students have access to a dedicated studio space? I think all the design schools assign students their studio desk. It is best to get a desktop set up in the studio. Stay in the studio and focus on the work. Use the old laptop for other generic classes for essays and researches.
Mac isn't bad systems but a little overpriced for any given performance specs and factual limitations because it is NOT the OS that all the software is developed for. Additionally, runnin a non-native app on any OS results in performance reduction as compared to the app running natively in its native OS environment is was designed for when all hardware specs are equal. Apple may be popular for a single proprietary platform that isn't the industry standard OS. Microsoft won the OS war on desktop and laptop computers because while only one manufacturer makes Apple, every computer manufacturer of any recognition makes Windows PCs. There's more different manufacturers that makes Linux or an Amiga operating system (AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS, etc.) based compatible PC than Apple although not likely to the volume of Apple makes (especially the latter and no individual Linux PC manufacturer makes as many PCs running Linux as Apple makes of Mac) of Macs but Windows PC volume is many times greater. Even if no single PC maker makes as many of any model of PCs as Apple may make of Mac. Apple is just one manufacturer even if successful, doesn't have the PC market cornered.
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